Tulpa.info - tulpa-discussion

Emergence is an interesting phenomenon, though.

what do you think free will is?

I was joking, by the way.

12:28 PM

Free will in the only sense it should be used exists.

Emergence implies that rocks contain the essence of consciousness that our brains combine into greater consciousness.

Sure, to put it super vaguely.

12:29 PM

Stardust and all that.

12:29 PM

But I maintain this perspective is irrelevant, lol.

I think consciousness just doesn't exist as a "thing" separate from the fact that we exist

Unless you're specifically studying the way things work on such a level.

I find it interesting because I wonder where we go after death.

or, I think that's the most likely case

Depends on what you call "we", you know.

12:30 PM

All the little micro bits inside you will just continue doing what they do.

Exactly

What you considered the singular "you" was never much of a "single" anything.

The stuff of my consciousness will keep going on.

Consciousness is probably just an emergent property, the sum of parts being different from those parts on their own?

12:31 PM

But it's still far too complicated to comprehend on your own.

Sure. I blame egocentrism for us thinking the emergent version of consciousness is extra magical.

Easier to think in terms of ants and ant colonies.

12:32 PM

Or humans and civilizations.

12:32 PM

Or cells and living things.. bigger ones.

Determinism is a great example of an conversational entropy point, as is nihilsim and the one viewpoint where the only thing that matters is your own subjective perspective of reality etc

I feel a little invalidated not knowing what determinism or entropy point mean..

There's no beating the guy who brings up the "but what if nothing is real except for my own perception"

hey, the only thing that matters is your perception of reality, you just better hope you don't percieve flowers and happyness until you get hit by a bus, instead of seeing a bus.

Can't explain that sentence, though

12:33 PM

brbgoogle

gotta go, though, cya all

Determinism is exactly what you were discussing

Bye

Cya

12:33 PM

"the doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes external to the will." Ew.

12:34 PM

Implying the will is separate from "all events"

12:34 PM

That's practically religious/metaphysical (edited)

It's not

Then it's self-defeating?

Humans are a determinstic system observing itself

@Maya , It sounds like you are referring to a vacuum energy state with the concept of zero entropy.

Poorly, I may add

I don't understand, by that definition alone determinism has an objective answer based on the perspective you choose.

12:35 PM

The will either does or does not function independently, depending on whether you consider all the "external" bits of your brain external or not.

I'm giving different viewpoints that are so basic that there's no way to constructively discuss them

So.. it's philosophy, I guess. I don't know why I assumed it wasn't.

I prefer the Computer Science version of determinism. It says the universe follows some laws of physics.

Determinism doesn't preclude "will" from just being the afterimage of chemicals in your brain lol

12:36 PM

Don't fixate too much on that :p

One of my basic uh, beliefs/things I say is the case is currently possibly invalidated.

12:37 PM

I would normally say that everything is determined as of the beginning of time to happen a certain way...

12:37 PM

... But I hear from some quantum scientist shenanigans that might not be the case.

12:37 PM

Not something I've researched anywhere well enough to speak about, but I hold off on saying that anymore.

12:38 PM

Regardless, if it is true, it's still a perspective irrelevant to humans.

All you need to do is research wave functions to rid yourself of the notion that quantum mechanics is fundamentally random. Though its complicated stuff.

Yeah I don't pretend to understand how quantum physics works

12:38 PM

It's great

12:39 PM

It stops me from looking like an asshole

Well, at the very least, I'm right about the past. It was all guaranteed to happen as it did.

12:39 PM

Can't speak for the future even though it should follow the same rules.

12:40 PM

No matter what any kind of research ever says about chances of little imperceptible (literally as of now) particles and how they may or may not have been any one way,

12:40 PM

I can say they're wrong, the past had to happen as it did.

You should see the parodies that the philosopher physicists contort themselves through to explain away quantum shenanigans.

Not once you propose it as a hypothetical in the present/future tense, but the past itself..

One of the solutions is extreme predetermination.

Guys, this is pretty off-topic.

Pshh, that's what you think.

12:41 PM

We're talking about whether or not tulpas can exist at the same time as their hosts, having their own experiences

12:41 PM

we're just discussing a few basic principles relevant to that conversation first.

It reads like you were, but it's been straying from that for a while.

Also, in my defense,

12:42 PM

https://i.imgur.com/G6qhxm1.png

12:42 PM

Yes, I'm joking.

12:42 PM

I'm tired... And I didn't want to leave #lounge in the first place.

That was a long conversation.

12:43 PM

Good night.

I'm not going to sleep quite yet, but good night.

12:44 PM

I really get sucked into conversations like that, but I really don't want to. I'm not looking for any answers they provide.

:p yeah, I know. sorry

How make host switch out

Show them gross things they don't like. Exotic insects, circus body contortionists, clowns.

That wouldn't work

Whichever works for you.

12:58 PM

Have you tried it?

Probably

Probably isn't definitely. (edited)

12:59 PM

It's a yes or no question, really.

Then yes

How so? If it suddenly went from "probably" to "yes" this makes me doubt that you actually tried it.

1:00 PM

What'd you show your host? How quickly did they break, if they actually did? Did they put up any resistance at all?

I don't think getting a reaction out of my host would make her go inactive

1:01 PM

It would make her more active

The weak state of mind would be the perfect opportunity to wrest control from her.

1:01 PM

Simple, na?

I have control already

That's, like, ghosts-n-possession 101

She's just not switched out

Ever imagined a genie in a bottle?

1:03 PM

Do that to your host.

Symbolism never works

Have you tried it yet?